Duct Tape aproach to Discipleship
Well since there are different readers from different perspectives out there let me define discipleship.
Helping people become like Jesus.
Yeah, not a complicated definition huh?
So what I have been thinking about is how do I help people get from point A to point B. If you are a Leafer that means “Leading People from where they are to where God wants them to be.” It’s what keeps me up at night and ticks me off when I see some of our attenders/members walk away from God even though they were going through the motions of discipleship.
That might mean they were in a group, taking a class through Oak Leaf University, or involved in a Volunteer Team. Whatever it is, it reminds me of the mind set “here’s what we have to offer, you need to find your own way.” It’s kind of passing someone the Duct Tape and sayin, “Knock yourself out.”
You know, in education Billions of dollars are spent on Exceptional Students (ESE). They (the government) realize that a regular classroom & regular resources is not enough for everyone. It is the same for the field of Psychiatric Medicine. The book I was trained with the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM 4) has 3Xs as many disorders as there are different divisions of Special Education. That means everyone does not do well with the same treatments and everyone needs to be seen as an individual.
So what does that mean for the church?
I got a hunch. In the words of Gary Hamel, a brilliant guy, he says, “Why in an economic downturn are businesses changing but the church is not?” According to Gary the church will die out if we do not change and address the needs of the people.
Now before you start to write something I fully believe that everyone needs to be changed by the gospel first. Jesus has to take up the residency in us as Lord and our souls must be regenerated by the Holy Spirit. But it is the process of what happens before & after that, which concerns me at the moment.
This is an ongoing thing that I will be writing about periodically but I would love to hear what you think?
Are we missing something in the church today when it comes to Discipleship?
June 16th, 2010 at 1:55 PM
yes…we are missing simplicity.
June 16th, 2010 at 1:56 PM
I agree with you. I agree that the church as an organization does need to look at change. I’m not sure it will die out, but rather be transformed into something completely new. The thing is, and I also was pondering this today, how do we get grown adults beyond baby steps and into taking full measured adult sized steps? That is something most organizational changes struggle with….
June 16th, 2010 at 1:57 PM
I would have to say, yes, of course, we are missing something when it comes to discipleship. Just look at the state of most churches, the rate at which people come and go, and how many people in the community are not even affected. But I don’t believe that the church is the only reason, our culture and how people are also contributes to it.
The church tries one program after another to reach people and once we find something that gets that magic number, we feel like we succeeded. It doesn’t matter if people are really growing spiritually, just that we now have x amount of people attending. After that, we stop trying to find other things to reach people, we just keep on with our successful formula until it’s not successful anymore.
Another thing concerning the church is follow-up. Once people have joined, or they are baptized, or have gone through that class or whatever, the church forgets about them. They are prodded into service or a campaign or asked to be a deacon and that seems to be it. Then they get burned out and leave.
On the other hand, this is not all the churches fault. As Michael has said several times, you need to start feeding yourself at some point. Since most Americans want everything handed to them in the abridged, don’t take up too much of my time, shortcut version of everything, they don’t stick around church long enough to see something to completion. We get frustrated when we don’t get instant results and we quit.
And on that note, I need to go. But I’ll continue later.:-)
June 16th, 2010 at 2:21 PM
I think that an economic crisis in America is a great thing for business and the church. It brings out some of the most creative ideas–mostly for survival though.
Since there are no perfect people there are no perfect churches so, yes we can do better w discipleship. I think the one thing that is missing most is not knowledge but application of what we know.
June 16th, 2010 at 2:27 PM
Great thoughts guys, I think that we all kind of sense a problem but from what angle do you come at it? Application, better follow up, growing up, simplicity? There is something common in all of that, Hmmmmmmmm.
June 16th, 2010 at 3:22 PM
I think the disciple level of a church or group of people is representative of the individuals in the group. Individuals are not connecting with God through a relationship, but rather an event every once in a while. The most effective way to impact the individual in the longterm is through friendship and personal connection. Disciples are not made in classes, groups or committees. They are made one at a time, through the deliberate action of another believer or believers fulfilling Mat 28:19-20
June 16th, 2010 at 8:29 PM
Tommy I aint tryin to sound biased but I like where you are goin…
June 16th, 2010 at 9:15 PM
I agree with Tommy that discipleship is personal but the classes and groups are important to help people connect, not to “Oakleaf” but to me and you. The weekend services are on a schedule, especially if you have kids. The most important part of a class is not the subject but the person who comes to that class with an interest. Use an opportunity to meet someone where you already have common ground.
June 16th, 2010 at 9:34 PM
I agree with Tommy. Good stuff.
June 17th, 2010 at 12:23 AM
What is the Church (with the capital C) missing?
Faith – God gives us chances to join him at play (I like to use the word play instead of work)- we have to make the choice whether or not to jump in.
Faith to know that he may take us down a path no other human has ever seen and if that is the case – it will be a Good thing/ it will be exciting – Colossians says that Christ is where the action is (in the Message). In other words keep your bags packed by the door and when He offers to take you with him on a trip, don’t ask when you’ll be back – just GO.
Faith – to say, I don’t have to know what the plan is/ I just have to know He is the one leading our steps and Courage to test the direction of the path by making sure it is NOT based on our experiences or knowledge of the world, but by our experiences and knowledge of God. But we have to know God to be able to do this or we have to have a strong spiritual guide to do this for us.
The early church was made up of people that had a single objective to share the wonder of what Christ had done for All people. I don’t believe they did this because it was an assignment (they were human after all), they weren’t talking about a good book they had read, they shared exciting personal experiences with God and it was an easy thing to share and their message spread like none before or since.
So, if the church is made up of individual Christians you need a church with folks that have experienced God at work. If a church is made up of folks that have never seen God at work, they will likely have good intentions but they won’t have anything to share…or at least nothing that other folks will be interested in hearing about…Christianity IS MYSTICAL, trying to make it logical is futile – but this is what many churches do because they don’t have Faith that God is there and don’t encourage Christians to jump in and get wet.
June 17th, 2010 at 7:55 AM
Kevin, alright so groups and classes get us closer to each other and I agree. I think the benefit of those things is not just what is being shared but the relationships that will take place.
Dave you are correct as in individuals that are changed because of faith will want to share this with others. If they don’t have this what is there to share? Where does the desire come from?
Great points!
June 17th, 2010 at 9:22 AM
I am on the same thoughts as Tommy and Kevin that discipleship is about investing personal in individuals to make that impact we must build friendships. We can do this through groups and classes developing friendship to become disciples to those who need to be lead from where they are to where God wants them to be.
June 17th, 2010 at 10:23 AM
when i think about why discipleship is a struggling aspect in churches, i think of a few things. i have no answers really, just thoughts.
1. our culture has changed greatly in the last few decades. people are much more private than they used to be. this may sound harsh, but people in general have become socially inept. they don’t know how to have relationships with others. our work culture has created a society that focuses on a task instead of life with others.
2.we’ve got to love Jesus and love people. truly loving Jesus will demand that we desire for others to love Jesus. therefore, we have a desire to disciple others.
3. i’ve been in lots of discipleship programs, groups & relationships before. i’ve been in some great relationships that have spurred me on to know and experience Jesus. one group that negatively impacted me was a group constantly focusing on fixing my sin. no experience of God, but going down the long list of all that was wrong with me, creating a terrible self image and spiraling me into a depression that took years to get over. this experience made me extremely wary to ever join another discipleship group. there was no grace, no love, no relationship, but a constant hammer on why i was not holy and Godly. i’m all about confessing sin to others. i think God intended for us to help eachother through sanctification, but some go too far in considering it their job to point out every sin in your life.
from my own life, i know i always long to have a woman older and wiser than me, investing in my life. it’s rare to find someone that wants to have that kind of relationship and truly commit to it. because i know that about myself, i often look for a younger girl that God could use me to invest in them. it is not an easy task and sometimes uncomfortable, but it is what we are called to do as the Body of Christ.
that’s my 2 cents, or more like, 50.
June 17th, 2010 at 11:28 AM
Wow, I’m totally with Rebekah, and a few of the last commentators. I feel we need more one on one with people. Like everyone should strive to Pastor one another. Michael says we are all Pastors in our daily lives. He and the other Pastors at the church cannot go out and Pastor everyone. I am willing to shepherd others. I want to devote my life to serving the Lord in what ever way he so chooses. Unfortunately, not all people are there. So how do they get there? (I wasn’t always there, this took time to get to this point)
So what’s missing??? Maybe more teachings about our roles. Very important to teach new “babies” Christians, once they decide they want to follow Jesus, what their role is.
That starts out with volunteering, which is learning to humble yourself and serve others instead of yourself.
Next, with joining a small group or class, so you can build relationships and get to know other people. This way you show up to Church and actually know people there (other than the ones you walked in with), that list of people grows and grows. It becomes personal for you. At that point, you are committed to a Church because you are a part of helping it grow, a part of helping touch lives. That is so important to people. It makes it harder to walk a way when you feel you are a part of something.
After that, we need to make each other accountable. Are we doing what we are supposed to? There are so many ways to reach people. But…some people are not naturals at this and some are super shy. We have to teach people ways to disciple others. We have to provide the tools and equipment. Have classes that focus on how we can reach people.
Again, I stand behind teaching people their roles. From the first I want to ask Jesus into my heart, let’s face it, most people don’t know how easy that is or how freely available it is, until they are taught. I didn’t know it was as easy as it was. I didn’t know I didn’t have to sit down with a priest and tell him about all the stuff I did over the last year, months, days or whatever. No clue. I didn’t know I could just say I believe in you, what you did, and Jesus come into my heart and stay with me! Show me the way! That’s it! That changes will come naturally, but not overnight and that not everything will change. The Holy Spirit is who guides me. I just didn’t know. I needed to be taught. If it’s a married couple, wow, they really need extra attention to make sure they understand their roles and that everyone has a role. The man is not better than the woman. He isn’t more than, etc. Things like that must be taught. People have such a wrong impression of their roles. It’s amazing to me how I easily accepted my roles, when they were spelled out. In the past a man threw my roles out to me, but only made it sound convenient for him and I was his doormat. Guess what I learned??? Nuh uh! I’m no doormat, in fact, I should have been the most precious thing to him. I didn’t get it, until I was taught. I would have rather rebelled against a husband completely if I wasn’t taught my role and he get taught his role. We have so many roles, it’s hard to keep up sometimes, so we need good teachings about that! We have roles as child, sibling, spouse, parent, other family member, friend, brother/sister in Christ, co-worker, and stranger. We are born with sinful hearts and have to be taught how we should be reacting to situations so we recognize when we don’t do quite what we should. The Holy Spirit helps us with that too, but there are still things we need to be taught. We need to help one another. Again, part of the accountability thing!
Sorry if I rambled on and on, I could write about this subject for days!
June 17th, 2010 at 11:34 AM
Alright so what we are hearing is that there is a variety of deliveries but a personal influence has to be there to make the difference.
Thanks Bekah, Bonni, and Kathy for contributing!
June 17th, 2010 at 1:39 PM
One other thought – we have to make sure that we don’t make disciples of a particular group, church or person. If we bring new Christians into a situation where they put their faith in a person leading their way – they will always be disappointed. Encouraging folks to build a personal relationship with God that can stand the failures of humans is key.
June 19th, 2010 at 4:12 PM
In no particular order I believe the following should be focused on by the Church in order to fulfill Jesus’ commission.
1) encourage genuine Christian fellowship
2) pursue maturity in Christ
3) training a new generation of Godly pastors
4) multiplication of Christian leaders
5) encourage evangelistic zeal
6) channel God given fervor to doctrinal maturity
I do want to reiterate the importance of simplicity in the midst of overwhelming cultural competition for the individual’s time and focus.
Just a few ideas written from my phone while my girls are scrap-booking.
Great blog Jody!!
June 21st, 2010 at 12:15 PM
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